Comments on: Carbonated

By: cperkins

cperkins — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:04:47 +0000

There’s something in the idea that making idols of things in this world is a Very Bad Idea – what Jane calls theological thinking. I can think I am above society, and that I know how to ‘fix’ society (in fact, I do think I know of many ways in which society can and should be improved). But once you elevate your opinion of how society should be fixed into the position of a deity, you’re in big trouble – or going to cause big trouble – because it’s all too easy to decide that you are justified in using force on the people who are obviously sub-human idiots because they disagree with yout. And you don’t have any co-religionists or priests or sacred texts that might bring it to your attention that it it immoral to use force in such cases.

The human tendency to think that we are right, that others will not only understand our views but aggree, and that anyone who doesn’t should be eliminated in universal and found within religions, too, of course. But based on the history of the last hundred years or so, I think the crowd that worship political systems or some fantasy of a purified or perfected human being are far more dangerous that those who worship a God – even if I also don’t agree with a lot of the theists either.

By: jd

jd — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:43:44 +0000

“Try Rousseau, Robespierre, Marx, Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler Mao Castro and Pol Pot.”

I would suggest that what they have in common is lumping eveyone into “society” and a belief that they know how to fix the problems of “society”.

And a willingness to kill any one who doesn’t agree whith their fix.

By: robert_piepenbrink

robert_piepenbrink — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:30:06 +0000

I didn’t propose that you–or anyone–give up humanities. And I never in the least implied that study of the Western tradition only bred monsters. I’m saying that a thorough grounding in the humanities does not seem to produce by itself a worthwhile ethical code. This doesn’t mean they’re not worth studying: it means they aren’t sufficient, even for the questions which ought by some reasoning to be within their purview–”What is the good?” “What are my obligations to my family or my community?” If you want to explain why you do good when you won’t get credit, and avoid doing evil even when you won’t get caught, education is not enough.

And I very carefully excluded Stalin from my monster list precisely because I wasn’t satisfied with his education. I will stipulate that there are a great many evil people with poor educations. That was not my point.

Please note that for all the talk of these people being “theological” the first step in organizing a first-rate massacre is to leave out of the Western tradition a pesky personal God who disapproves of murder, doesn’t think I should covet my neighbor’s property, and in fact insists that I should love my neighbor. The problem with Christians is that we often fail to live up to the standard set by our belief. The problem with the people I named is that they DID live up to the standard set by their beliefs.