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	<title>Comments on: Boxing Day</title>
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		<title>By: jd</title>
		<link>http://blog.janehaddam.com/2008/12/26/boxing-day/comment-page-1/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.janehaddam.com/?p=237#comment-317</guid>
		<description>I can be classed as an agnostic Jew and don&#039;t feel qualified to comment on Christianity. But I grew up in a small town where we were the only Jews. And joined a Protestan Youth group when I was a teen. Back then (the early 1950s), most of the town went to Church (Catholic and about 5 Protestan), no one worried about the Catholics having released time in school once a week for Church lessons, divorce was rare and no one considered abortion to be acceptable.

I really would like to know how so much changed in only 50 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can be classed as an agnostic Jew and don&#8217;t feel qualified to comment on Christianity. But I grew up in a small town where we were the only Jews. And joined a Protestan Youth group when I was a teen. Back then (the early 1950s), most of the town went to Church (Catholic and about 5 Protestan), no one worried about the Catholics having released time in school once a week for Church lessons, divorce was rare and no one considered abortion to be acceptable.</p>
<p>I really would like to know how so much changed in only 50 years.</p>
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		<title>By: robert_piepenbrink</title>
		<link>http://blog.janehaddam.com/2008/12/26/boxing-day/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>robert_piepenbrink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.janehaddam.com/?p=237#comment-316</guid>
		<description>It is the nature of factions to represent themselves as the whole, or at least the REAL movement. The jungles used to be full of heavily-armed fuzzy studies majors who could explain to you why they, and they alone, interpreted Marx correctly. The &quot;Real IRA&quot; is a bona fide faction&#039;s name, and DON&#039;T get a vegan started on the evils of vegetarianism. (It would of course be tacky for me to mention &quot;the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party&quot; in this context, so I won&#039;t.)

The better question is why for some time now many critics of Christianity have accepted as typical of the whole factions which would not be so accepted were they speaking for environmentalism or &quot;progressivism.&quot; Ignorance would do for an explanation, of course, but I suspect those critics simply find slaying straw men safer and easier then engaging properly-armed opponents. This does not make them wrong on the broader issue, but it does make them ineffectual.

It is the responsibility of the critic to distinguish the failings of an individual from the faults of a faction, and those from problems which are inherent in a movement. The deficiencies of James Earl Carter or even of the Congress of the United States do not refute democracy. 

But if the test of the critic is knowing and honestly describing what it is he criticises, the test of a movement is how far someone can go and still escape criticism because &quot;he&#039;s one of ours.&quot; 

Another day for that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the nature of factions to represent themselves as the whole, or at least the REAL movement. The jungles used to be full of heavily-armed fuzzy studies majors who could explain to you why they, and they alone, interpreted Marx correctly. The &#8220;Real IRA&#8221; is a bona fide faction&#8217;s name, and DON&#8217;T get a vegan started on the evils of vegetarianism. (It would of course be tacky for me to mention &#8220;the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party&#8221; in this context, so I won&#8217;t.)</p>
<p>The better question is why for some time now many critics of Christianity have accepted as typical of the whole factions which would not be so accepted were they speaking for environmentalism or &#8220;progressivism.&#8221; Ignorance would do for an explanation, of course, but I suspect those critics simply find slaying straw men safer and easier then engaging properly-armed opponents. This does not make them wrong on the broader issue, but it does make them ineffectual.</p>
<p>It is the responsibility of the critic to distinguish the failings of an individual from the faults of a faction, and those from problems which are inherent in a movement. The deficiencies of James Earl Carter or even of the Congress of the United States do not refute democracy. </p>
<p>But if the test of the critic is knowing and honestly describing what it is he criticises, the test of a movement is how far someone can go and still escape criticism because &#8220;he&#8217;s one of ours.&#8221; </p>
<p>Another day for that one.</p>
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		<title>By: cperkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.janehaddam.com/2008/12/26/boxing-day/comment-page-1/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>cperkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.janehaddam.com/?p=237#comment-315</guid>
		<description>I like Boxing Day. Nice, quiet (my province has it as one of the remaining Shop Closing Act days, so no madness at the malls until tomorrow), nothing to do but snack on leftovers, maybe do a bit of desultory stuff on the computer, pay a casual visit or two, and sleep or read or watch a DVD. And we haven&#039;t got the horrible weather that was forecast, so it&#039;s good to get outside. I can&#039;t remember another winter when every other place in Canada EXCEPT here got smothered in terrible winter weather at the same time. Nice.

I can&#039;t say I read much atheist literature at Christmas or at any other time, but I have frequently noticed people attributing to me (or other Christians) beliefs that aren&#039;t mine, and in some cases aren&#039;t those of anyone else I know, or possibly totally contrary to most Christian ideas. I mean, I know there&#039;s a fairly broad range of Christian beliefs out there when you consider all the little breakaway sects and quarrelsome schismatics or near-schismatics and the lamentable lack of religious education of some adherents, but sometimes the stuff people come up with about Christianity are really bizarre.

Leaving aside the small minority (I assume) who are setting up straw men, I suspect a lack of theological education is the problem. Most people have difficulty trying to put themselves mentally in the position of someone they disagree with thoroughly, and it takes a bit of time and effort to work your way through what&#039;s actually being taught and the theological implications thereof. A lot of people who are actually churchgoers don&#039;t do it, so it&#039;s not surprising that opponents don&#039;t. 

I think I just have an analytical turn of mind, as well as a lack of experience with and knowledge of folk Protestantism (well, unless you count one or two rather odd discussions about dinosaurs and how actually attending church should be determined by what you got out of it and how you felt about it). If someone is saying something about the Old Testament or bits of it applying or not applying today, I like to read up on what people have been saying about the place the Law should have in a Christian way of life. It never occurred to me (until I read people claiming that it should) that I should take every single law in the Old Testament literally, because nothing I read or heard indicated that. What I read was more along the lines of the meaning of the word &#039;murder&#039; or &#039;killing&#039; than on following ritual laws that hardly any Christian in history has obeyed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Boxing Day. Nice, quiet (my province has it as one of the remaining Shop Closing Act days, so no madness at the malls until tomorrow), nothing to do but snack on leftovers, maybe do a bit of desultory stuff on the computer, pay a casual visit or two, and sleep or read or watch a DVD. And we haven&#8217;t got the horrible weather that was forecast, so it&#8217;s good to get outside. I can&#8217;t remember another winter when every other place in Canada EXCEPT here got smothered in terrible winter weather at the same time. Nice.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say I read much atheist literature at Christmas or at any other time, but I have frequently noticed people attributing to me (or other Christians) beliefs that aren&#8217;t mine, and in some cases aren&#8217;t those of anyone else I know, or possibly totally contrary to most Christian ideas. I mean, I know there&#8217;s a fairly broad range of Christian beliefs out there when you consider all the little breakaway sects and quarrelsome schismatics or near-schismatics and the lamentable lack of religious education of some adherents, but sometimes the stuff people come up with about Christianity are really bizarre.</p>
<p>Leaving aside the small minority (I assume) who are setting up straw men, I suspect a lack of theological education is the problem. Most people have difficulty trying to put themselves mentally in the position of someone they disagree with thoroughly, and it takes a bit of time and effort to work your way through what&#8217;s actually being taught and the theological implications thereof. A lot of people who are actually churchgoers don&#8217;t do it, so it&#8217;s not surprising that opponents don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I think I just have an analytical turn of mind, as well as a lack of experience with and knowledge of folk Protestantism (well, unless you count one or two rather odd discussions about dinosaurs and how actually attending church should be determined by what you got out of it and how you felt about it). If someone is saying something about the Old Testament or bits of it applying or not applying today, I like to read up on what people have been saying about the place the Law should have in a Christian way of life. It never occurred to me (until I read people claiming that it should) that I should take every single law in the Old Testament literally, because nothing I read or heard indicated that. What I read was more along the lines of the meaning of the word &#8216;murder&#8217; or &#8216;killing&#8217; than on following ritual laws that hardly any Christian in history has obeyed.</p>
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